Listener Call 2

PETER: This is BackStory. I’m Peter Onuf.

BRIAN: I’m Brian Balogh.

ED: And I’m Ed Ayers. Today on the show, we’re looking at how the struggle for fair wages for American workers has changed over time.

PETER: We’ve got another call, this time from April in Chicago. Hey April, what do you got for us?

APRIL: So my question is about wage gap. And it seems like discussing our salaries with our coworkers is a huge taboo in this country. But it’s also a large reason why there is a wage gape and why it’s so common. We have both federal and state laws which allow for legal action to be taken, but no way of knowing when these laws are being broken. So really, my question is, when did we as a culture, that’s known for our brashness and over-sharing, find that it’s inappropriate for us to share this information?

PETER: Yeah when did we start keeping it secret when we’re such braggarts? Hertz

ED: I think this is sort of a byproduct of the number of people who are on salaries rather than hourly wage. Because I think as long as there has been a salary, the idea was, that’s sort of privileged information, right. If you’re showing up to work as a day laborer, here’s what we’re paying. We know what it is, right. But as people start not being paid on a regular basis, and not being paid in cash, they get these checks. I don’t know, Brian, the salary really becomes dominant the 20th century. But it seems that this is a kind of carry over to answer April’s question, from more decorous time when people just didn’t talk about money.

BRIAN: So here’s a test. But I don’t have the data to answer the question. We know that the salaries of public employees is public information. So if the theory that transparency sheds light on covering up discrimination through wages, presumably there should be less disparity among public employees than in the private sector. Which you would you buy that theory at any rate, April?

APRIL: I would, except, I have a very good example for where that’s not true.

BRIAN: As I said, I don’t know the answer to the question. But it would seem to be a good test. So tell me about your example. Because we are historians and one example does make a historical trend.

APRIL: So I used to be an adjunct history professor at a community college. And at this college all of the wages were posted online. And I noticed that two different professors in my department, were paid– there was a disparity of about $10,000. And one was a male, and one was a female. They both were hired at the same time, both had PhDs. And this female, even though it was public knowledge was getting paid about $10,000 less.

BRIAN: Wow. Did you look into that?

APRIL: I told her very clandestinely that this website existed and maybe she should look at it. I didn’t want to tell her directly, hey you’re getting underpaid.

ED: Do you think it’s possible that women are less likely to want to talk about their wages or salaries in public than men?

APRIL: Yes, definitely. They’ve done a lot of studies that show that women are less likely to ask for a raise to begin with. So I think that leads to the assumption that we are less likely to want to discuss how much we are being paid.

ED: Would you have a theory for why that might be?

APRIL: I think it’s something that– perhaps maybe to the same line for why women don’t want to self identify as feminists. We don’t– we’re sort of socially conditioned to not to make any waves.

BRIAN: I’m curious. We live in an age where people put everything about themselves on the web. Do you have any sense that there is more transparency out there in the wonderful world of social media?

APRIL: I don’t think there is. I mean, we do have things like LinkedIn, which are basically for workplace Facebook. I don’t think people put their salary up there because you wouldn’t want to potentially give yourself a lower salaried for future job if they’re willing to pay more, right.

BRIAN: Don’t make the first offer.

APRIL: There are websites out there which will take anonymous surveys and then cull all that information together. And give you your particular job in this location is this range.

PETER: So, April, I hope we’ve at least kept the conversation going in your mind. And we have really enjoyed talking with you.

APRIL: Yeah, thank you, guys.

BRIAN: Thank you.

ED: Bye-bye.

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